RE: VSC Bringing DeFi To Hive

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RE: VSC Bringing DeFi To Hive

mrtats in LeoFinance • 10 months ago

BT's vote doesn't guarantee you a top 20 spot. Did they get endorsed because they were close to becoming top 20 or were they already a top 20 witness?

Could someone become a top 20 witness without BT's vote? Absolutely.

Would it be harder to achieve without BT's vote? Again absolutely.

The problem is not enough people vote for witnesses or if they do vote they just vote for whoever is in the top 20 and call it a day.

Another problem is that there are a ton of people who don't care about governance and just only care about earning. Whatever small amount of HIVE they receive is powered down and sold.

I haven't really seen BT powering down.

10 months ago in LeoFinance by mrtats

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manniman 10 months ago (edited)

Hm, no you can not become a block producer if the biggest stake holders don't support you. That is as certain as death on a delegated proof of stake blockchain.

I think showing restraint would good, just don't have vote on twenty or more out of 20+1 Blockproducers if you're a top10 whale. How about 3-5, and keep the rest of the voting power for an actual attack scenario.

But honestly, I do not want to be prescriptive. That is not my place to be at. Every setting is in place purposefully, no accidents here to be discover.

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apshamilton 10 months ago

The fact that there is a lot of circular voting amoung top witnesses and large stakeholders and that BT's vote is very helpful, but not essential to get into top 20 or get a proposal funded does not mean Hive is not more decentralised than every other blockchain other than Bitcoin.

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manniman 10 months ago (edited)

The mining process of Hive is naturally more decentralized and very independent from the Witnesses. We can create saving, participate in author/curation mining and get staking rewards independent of staking pools.

Every not whale will most likely not care about this issue. Meanwhile the security of wrapped btc on the VSC side is actually getting hardened right now. VSC and Hive are preparing a hardfork enabling big multi signature pools for additional security surrounding the wrapped Coins.

But the raw fact that one and the same stake votes on 30 witnesses in 20+1 witness system is suboptimal - and easy to fix.

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vaultec 10 months ago

VSC and Hive are preparing a hardfork enabling big multi signature pools.

Please do not confuse massive multisigs with Hive consensus. They are two completely separate things.

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manniman 10 months ago

edited:
*for additional security surrounding the wrapped Coins.

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manniman 10 months ago

I really think none outside of our ecosystem understand how the mining processes of this Blockchain work. You can't just look at the witnesses to understand "Who is making money?"

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vaultec 10 months ago

I think showing restraint would good, just don't have vote on twenty or more out of 20+1 Blockproducers if you're a top10 whale. How about 3-5, and keep the rest of the voting power for an actual attack scenario.

The problem is once an entity has enough power to vote one person into the top20 single handily, they can practically vote out everyone currently in the top20. The top20 have majority control over block production & rewards, yet the actual voting structure encourages a concentration of stake around that top20.

Irrespective of the individuals involved whether it's BT, or whaleXYZ

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manniman 10 months ago

Very eloquently written and 100% right, sportsman would say a perfect defense is the perfect offense. That fits here too.

Obviously the mining process is not limited to block production with this technology.

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vaultec 10 months ago

Obviously the mining process is not limited to block production with this technology.

Yes, and this is good. Arguably, block production needs to be done by much more than just the top20 as the majority producers.

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mrtats 10 months ago

Hm, no you can not become a block producer if the biggest stake holders don't support you. That is as certain as death on a delegated proof of stake blockchain.

Moving the goalpost. You talked about BT's vote. I am talking about BT's vote. Others' vote doesn't have a bearing on this. You can become a top 20 witness without BT's vote. It is just going to be hard.

Of course, you are not going to become a top 20 witness when multiple big stakeholders don't support you. Why does someone who doesn't have support become a top 20 witness?

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manniman 10 months ago

That is a taunt, I acknowledged your effort and refuse to attack. My statement remains the same. The amount of effective governance-power projected by BT is extraordinary.

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mrtats 10 months ago

That is a taunt, I acknowledged your effort and refuse to attack. My statement remains the same. The amount of effective governance-power projected by BT is extraordinary.

Governance-power projected by BT is not that extraordinary, you are exaggerating the power BT holds.

And powering down your HP and not powering it up is contradictory to your statement. As BT is only able to project "extraordinary" governance-power due to people powering down and not trying to power up.

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manniman 10 months ago

That is couple hundred Hive for housekeeping. I want to make distribution adjustments and have some liquid in case Credit-Card to Hive is letting me down. I pay privex and LeoPremium in Hive you know.

Why is it that you feel like that? It seems you want to defend Blocktrades here and yet he would probably not feel attacked at all reading my comments.

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mrtats 10 months ago

Why is it that you feel like that? It seems you want to defend Blocktrades here and yet he would probably not feel attacked at all reading my comments.

I am not defending blocktrades, where did you get that idea from? I am defending Hive's governance system.

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manniman 10 months ago

That is good, I want to see it getting even better.

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manniman 10 months ago

Anyway, thanks for engaging.

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