Such a thing as too good?

in Reflections5 days ago

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There has been a fair amount of debate lately on HIVE about whether or not AI content is acceptable. There are quite a few people who would agree that there is absolutely no place for it here on the chain. Then there are others who think that as long as you are up front about it being AI, then there is some wiggle room for what is acceptable.

Finally, we have those groups of people who just don't care at all and as an open blockchain, you are free to do whatever you want. @tarazkp wrote a really nice post a bit ago talking about how censorship free doesn't necessarily mean what a lot of people think it means. Especially in terms of HIVE and the plethora of front ends we have available to us to access the blockchain.

One wrong move and you could find yourself in HIVE jail.

In fact, even when you do everything right, you can occasionally find yourself on the wrong end of the ban hammer.

The funny thing about AI is the fact that like all computer software, it is governed by rules. There is a very formulaic process that takes place when someone has ChatGPT or Grok create content for you. The problem arises because that formula is also a widely accepted standard for proper writing.

Back when AI generated content first came out, I was able to pretty easily pick it out simply because short of a research paper or a formal document, people just don't write like that. WEll, most people. What about those nerds who absorbed every tidbit of information their high school and college composition instructor fed to them? There's a good chance they are going to find themselves on the wrong side of an argument proving their content is genuine.

Here's an example. I was sitting around waiting for a school board meeting to start. I had a parent come up to me and start asking me if I was familiar with AI. I told her I was a little and she proceeded to tell me that her daughter had just received a failing grade on a paper because the professor though she had used AI for it.

This is where the problem arises. I can only assume the student was telling the truth about not using AI, but I can also see how mistakes like this can happen. If you write a well written paper with all the proper components like an opening, body, conclusion, etc. there is a good chance it could be mistaken for AI generated content.

Where does the line get drawn and how do you tell?

@cmplxty just wrote a post the other day about asking for a raise, and it make me think of something that happened earlier this week. About once a year I need to write something to the school board and superintendent where my wife and I work asking for a raise. My wife doesn't feel comfortable doing it herself, so she farms it out to me to take care of for her.

This year, I wrote up a nice letter and sent it over to her for approval. The first question she asked was if I had used AI to write it. I let her know I had in fact not used AI to write it. She replied something like "I knew you could write well, but this is amazing!". I've always considered myself a bit of a writer, but I feel that HIVE has definitely honed my skills.

To the point that I could be confused for AI?

I don't know about that, but it certainly raises some concerns. What happens when original content is mistaken for AI content? I think we have all seen what happens around here when folks double down and try to defend themselves when accusations are leveled. As diverse and beautiful as the users on HIVE are, they are also pretty stubborn and once they believe one way about something, getting them to capitulate even a smidge is impossible.

In fact, the whole world seems to be that way these days about any manner of topics.

The line is slowly getting blurred for better or worse and many people have put zero thought into where they stand. I have my own personal feelings about what is acceptable on HIVE, but that doesn't mean they align with what everyone else thinks. It also doesn't mean that I am right and they are wrong or vice versa.

I have a feeling like many things on HIVE, ten years from now there will probably still be an ongoing debate about what is acceptable.


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I don't think there is any danger of my writing being confused for AI, I am just not anywhere near that good at writing 😀

There are definitely ways to use AI to improve original content, but they all take extra effort and seeing the amount of controversy around the whole AI topic it certainly serves as a strong disincentive to put in that extra effort.

I wish Hive community was more focused on bringing in new users and making Hive more popular as well as attracting investors here than spending our energy fighting over AI and other stuff.


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There are a lot of things we fight about where that in the grand scheme of things should be taking a back seat to growing the chain and making people want to be here creating good content.

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In fact, even when you do everything right, you can occasionally find yourself on the wrong end of the ban hammer.

That's why downvoters must be extra cautious before putting Hivian into a jail.

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To some extent yes. In the end though it is their vote to use how they want.

You're right. However, whether what they do is good for the chain or not is a thorny issue.

Just as CGI has an uncanny valley, AI text has a similar feeling. Can definitely pick it up. Not everyone has the same level of pattern recognition.

AI stuff will get better, but people need to stop thinking of it as a replacement for thinking.

Writing is a form of thinking. There's an excellent short story, The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling by Ted Chiang that explores this topic.

From Wikipedia:

The story is written as an article by an unnamed journalist in the near future, who tells his experience with a device that endows its users with eidetic memory, interspersed with a fictionalized account of an incident in which writing was introduced to an African tribe. The story serves as a reflection of how improving human memory affects people's personal lives.

If you want an interesting read, go check it out:
https://archive.org/details/ted-chiang-the-truth-of-fact-the-truth-of-feeling

That's also a very good point. I'd never thought of that concept applying to AI content like that.

I know what you mean, in that I’m glad I have formulated my own style and strategy for writing over the years. I don’t know if it has all of the elements precisely but I think some of them could be confused for AI, when in just familiar with writing and have been for a long time.

It is a strange argument for sure but I’m glad that there are multiple sides, not just two. I’m of the mindset these days that I would rather someone admit to using AI than to try and pass it off as not AI even though it is. I know a lot of people are using it to proof read and clean something up which I think is good, as long as they learn from it rather than just constantly rely on it to do their work.

Indeed if it is still around, it will be debated for years to come lol. I could eventually see people complaining about those who don’t use AI, in some weird sense.

I’m in my own little camp, on the topic. Don’t love it, don’t hate it, and can appreciate the need and use for it in certain scenarios.

I don't use AI for stuff like that myself, but I am not outright opposed to it. I think you need to admit when you are using it though.

On Reddit in the chatgpt sub, there is at least one post a day about people claiming that the em dash  —  was never used before ai, that people never even knew about it before ai, and that anyone who uses it in their writing is showing that they used ai to do the writing for them. Completely ridiculous claims, of course. One only has to look at any novel from the 1800s to the present to see em dashes everywhere. But I think it's telling. The vast majority of people never read or write except in school and never do so after their school years. Due to that, pretty much all signs of good writing — not only strange typographic characters, but also good sentences, making an argument in your writing, etc — are becoming unknown. Then when people are confronted with it — well, I can't write like that and I don't know what that strange symbol is, so it must be ai.

Anything we don't know how to do looks like magic, after all. To a professional magician attending a magic show, it's kind of boring, but to people who don't know how to do the tricks and don't even know the techniques to mislead the audience, it is amazing and looks like, well, magic.

As ai gets better and better, so are claims that pretty much all writing over instant message length is ai.

Those are some really good points. I don't think I personally used the em dash in my writing, but I wouldn't assume it was AI just because someone did. I look at the content more than anything and the writing style.

Unfortunately, few other people do. They see complex writing (again, being anything more complex than a text message) and they will think ai. A good comparison might be how if anyone does a complex math problem today, we might just assume they used a calculator. Actually today probably no one cares. But back in the day, I can easily imagine some people getting offended What?? I didn't use a calculator! How dare you assume that? I used a slide rule. haha ok that's a bit silly, but point stands I think. Any time we get a new technology there is an adjustment period where people don't like the new technology and therefore they start not only punishing people who use it but people who they think are using it too. Then after the new technology becomes normal, no one cares. But that adjustment period is always rough.

Yes. Also a good point. It's funny how progress works.

Thank you for keeping us informed.

My pleasure!

This is why I'm posting a lot of wild, gritty and weird content, like the latest video which involved Bitcoin maxis, medieval warfare and our cat Zimba snoring!

Be human, unruly and do the improbable!

I like posting about a variety of topics as well!

The universe enjoys that! :-)

Some people truly are talented writers and can write as well as if not better than AI. Sadly, I'm not one of them. You are a good writer, and some part of that is natural talent but practice makes perfect. I do think you're correct that no solution will ever make everyone happy. Personally if someone uses a little AI and is open about it and fully discloses it, why not? But this can't be like Splinterlands where you divide things into Modern (humans only) vs Wild (anything goes.) Another thing that will be sure to come along will be AI that analyzes your writing style and will replicate your style and look just like a human, that will make things really interesting.

There will never be a way to make us all happy, and the debate will be endless. But it doesn't mean it not worth having.

Thanks, I was an English literature major for a couple of semesters in college, so it is good to know I actually absorbed a little bit!

AI is a slippery slope. Even most email platforms have AI assistants that do more than just check spelling/grammar embedded. Also, as you've mentioned, the tools that help identify AI-generated writing aren't perfect and can falsely label human created content as AI-created. This is just a small glimpse of the issues/debates we'll have about AI as it spills into more aspects of our lives.

For sure! I still haven't fully looked into the tools that Google Workspace offers. I'm just a bit apprehensive.

The thing is... the use of AI for writing has now become a trend for many people. There are people who can't even respond to a simple text without asking Grok or Chatgpt for answers.

I think this is why it is hard to believe someone wrote that word or sentences themselves because we are now in the AI world. It is believed that you can't write "very good" unless AI does it for you. It is just... I don't know, but not too cool, lol.

I have a lot of colleagues that I know use it and it drives me crazy. Even for the simplest things. To me it is a sign of laziness and carelessness.

Exactly... laziness, cos what'd you mean by "Grok, tell me the best way to respond to hello from s coworker," lol. It is just insane and I try as much as possible to stay far away from such people.

I'm kind of the same way. There are things that it makes sense to use it for and things that it should never come close to.

Exactly...

THank you for presenting multiple perspectives on this issue, it’s refreshing to see such a thoughtful approach to a topic like these.Well explained...

My pleasure!

it's a long run until we can figure out if it's good or bad... i mean is like fire, electricity?? or more like the wheel, the engine, the steam locomotive?

it's speeding things up thats a reality, in places like Hive the IA could be more educational, where we make tutorials about how to use it, insted of just using it...

The first way to get somewhere is to take the first step and speak about it is a great way thx 4 sharing your mind.

Yeah, I think that is a good point. I would support someone writing a post helping me learn how to craft a good query. Things like that make a bit more sense than just using it to produce content. I'm not opposed to AI images because I still feel there is a bit of an art to actually getting what you are looking for from a prompt.

I can't wait to see what you get :D

There is no such thing as 100 percent, and that is also applicable to all Artificial Intelligence (AI) detectors. For instance, I tried to write a recent blog. Every time I finished my draft, one of the things that I usually do is to use different AI detectors to test if it will detect my work as an original content, or it will be flagged as AI generated content. Upon doing so, there is a small percentage of my content that has been flagged. But the truth is I created the whole thing myself. So, where's the issue lies?

In that case, we can say that even though AI detectors comes with thorough programming logics, deep training, and machine learning, it will always be flawed.

The thing with other people who publish their works here on Hive is that they often rely on AI, to the point that the human essence fades. For the sake of rewards and easy published contents.

I think the thing that bugs me the most about AI content is the fact that people use it for comments. I can kind of understand why people might try to leverage it for "original" posts, but when you use it for comments, that's just next level lazy.

Where do you draw the line when people will use translation tools, grammar checkers and other software to compose their posts? The 'AI' ones will only improve and detecting them will get harder. I just write everything myself on here, but others will exploit whatever is available if they think they can earn from it. It may already be possible to have bots create posts and respond to comments in convincing ways.

The comments thing drives me crazy. As I said to someone else, that's just next level lazy.

I've always considered myself a bit of a writer, but I feel that HIVE has definitely honed my skills.

And that happens when you write out of passion, when your feelings get reflected on your writing - that is something that AI still can't beat humans.

Yes, that is a very good distinction!