RE: Hive L2 - return of the bidbots

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RE: Hive L2 - return of the bidbots

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deeanndmathews in Curangel • 8 months ago

No less a person than Azircon has noted we are down around 5,000 active users -- are you SURE you want to disturb anything that keeps users interested in posting with Hive around 20 cents? How many more people can we afford to discourage for doing what on a decentralized chain should not be policed?

No less a person than Acidyo has noted that the reason little creators can't be seen is because Haejin, Rancho Relaxo, and Trafalgar basically vote who they want onto the trending page and thus soak up most of the reward pool -- but they can't be confronted or touched. So, instead, Acidyo is finding little groups to punch down on because he doesn't feel he can punch UP ... there's a term for that, and I'll leave to everyone's imagination to fill in the blanks.

I do not know much about CCD ... but I know it doesn't come close to accounting for the problems on Hive any more than Free Compliments does. We know from Dalz's data of July 2024 that if we are EVER going to deal with the inflation and selling of Hive, we have to address how much HBD Stabilizer and the DHF are blowing out the door DAILY. Even considered collectively, little content creators just can't do that kind of damage -- and WE ARE DOWN TO ONLY 5,000 ACTIVE USERS if Azircon and others are to be believed. The Hive Five numbers are 138K -- but what is that compared to the billions on Web 2 that we are trying to get over here? We are hardly competitive! We desperately need people to tell GOOD STORIES about the chain! Do we need ANYONE ELSE going out there talking about how mean-spirited we are here, not even accounting for the fact that no one has told anyone that they can't do certain things before they build something that has people willing to stay here?

8 months ago in Curangel by deeanndmathews

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pharesim 8 months ago

That's bullshit. Bidbots have been a problem in the past, and if we don't take care all that's left at one point will be vote buying and exchanging.
We don't need users for users sake. If they're only here to extract as much value as possible, there's no benefit for Hive in having them.

We don't get new users by telling "stories", we would need simpler interfaces and better content discovery for these "billions" to even consider looking at Hive.

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deeanndmathews 8 months ago

There's also no value in having ZERO users, and no one having any reason to buy Hive and push the price back up. he lowest number I've seen for us is 4,779 users. Now, what number of that do you think is expendable with Hive only twice as high as its all time low? That's not what we call a story for altcoin success! If you want to protect your investment, you might want to think about the number of coins not Bitcoin on the altcoin ash heap of history, and understand: that gravity is strong! I don't know enough about bidbots and their history because I ignored that on Steem in the year I was there before coming to Hive, but as a wider crypto investor, I can tell you: this is not a good moment to do anything to push users out at a time at which they will by no means be replaced.

As a former professional journalist, I will simply inform you that if we are struggling with "content discovery," then we are struggling to have our own stories heard -- good content is also part the story of Hive we want out there. I will also mention: if we only have 4,779 content creators, and we are struggling in content discovery, there is not a long way to go before we are perfectly invisible. There is a reason many organizations that survive and thrive are masters of telling their own stories in a comprehensive way to the world, and there is a reason many organizations that cannot master that one skill fail entirely, even though they might have genius in every other way. We are not far from that point.

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pharesim 8 months ago

What reason do people who buy a 2nd layer token to receive votes on Hive have to buy Hive?

And where am I pushing users out? The bot was shut down, nobody got hurt.

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deeanndmathews 8 months ago

Again, I'm not necessarily talking about the bidbot itself. I'm talking about the collection of initiatives and pushes on Hive to find ways to terrify people who were never told they are doing anything wrong up front, and then have to face waves of DVs that they do not understand. You wrote your post to be scary to folks -- that one person paused his, but you scared plenty more people who are not going to feel they can help themselves in any way without being targeted. You published that big list of names of Hive users that are not going to understand why they are on blast -- and this is crypto, in which anonymity and privacy and being able to live under central control of what you can do with your resources is very important. If we are trying to communicate that Hive is decentralized, free, and safe, every threat of punitive action involving people who are suddenly all on blast with threats of future witch hunting and downvoting reads just like I said it. That's what Hive starts to look like. Everyone isn't going to wait for you to explain -- they are going to RUN.

4,779 users left -- MAYBE. Between folks barely clearing the signup hurdles, not knowing the rules when they come in and falling afoul of Hivewatchers, having Krampus the child-beating demon being made a measure to judge them ... that's Azircon's choice of name for his ratio ... not knowing about the history of bidbots and so being judged by a standard they have no way of even knowing exists ... that sounds like it is not worth the effort.

Meanwhile, you and Acidyo have open wallets too. I've looked in them and found that you both are sending enough Hive to exchanges so that if you backed off by just ten percent, you would have time to take a gentler approach to little accounts who don't account for that much Hive going out the door. Now immediately you will explain that you and he have things to do with all that powering down and exchanging... but I'm a business person. I already know that. But no one without such a background is going to know or care: they will know you are going after them for pennies while clearing thousands of dollars. The story is that the rich on Hive are running a circle jerk that also abuses the little people, and that's the story people who leave are telling, too. Just read all of your comments ... you'll see it. Understand that the narrative on Hive in the world is being affected quite a bit by this perception. So even IF we had 4,779 users telling good stories in the world about Hive, that would already be what we have to work against.

And, no matter what we do, altcoins lose 90 percent of their value in the bear times on average ... so,if there are not an influx of people we can get interested and excited and feeling safe on Hive this year, there will be no way to get them in 2026 when people will be running out of the crypto market as a whole, and when every bad story will be amplified. But let me make this easy: what is your entire whale stack worth, at ten percent of its present value? That's where we're going if we don't get a better narrative out there and sustain it, SOON.

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pharesim 7 months ago

Again, I'm not necessarily talking about the bidbot itself.

This post is about the bidbot itself.

You wrote your post to be scary to folks

I wrote this post to remind everyone that vote buying is a no-no. I don't care that vote buyers like that they can buy votes. I have and will always be fighting against business models using the reward pool for their own profits, and I will continue supporting >100 small users with my upvotes every single day without asking for anything in return.

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acidyo 8 months ago

they will know you are going after them for pennies while clearing thousands of dollars.

Don't fuck around to find out, maybe?

I'm sure pharesim's stake supports hundreds of users daily through curangel to point to that one user he may or may not have chased off the platform by downvoting their ill-gained votes.

If "people" are going around spreading this narrative they're just hurting themselves long term cause that's not what the truth is.

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11 votes

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deeanndmathews 8 months ago (edited)

That is the story out on Hive in the world ... I know you are working with OCD and Zingtoken ... but very few people who leave here are going to even know that. Again, read the comments ... that's the story going out ... Blurt, Steem ... interwebs ... it's out there, past the English language.

Now, about FAFO ... I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here ... I can understand you being frustrated with me of late, but I am going to assume you don't think you can bully me because you don't like what I have to say. Just in case, know who you are dealing with: I'm a best-selling Amazon author on crypto...

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735575216

... and I've just launched my course on Hivelist among other places:

https://store.hivelist.io/?post_type=product&p=23352

... and right now, both contain whole guides to doing well on Hive, the third of the three greatest blockchains on earth. That's how we want it to be, right? Put another way: I'm not FC. My storytelling reach on what Hive is, and its value, will only continue to increase and although we have our disagreements, I know we are not unreasonable to the point that we are going to endanger the good story of Hive. That book is coming up for a revision later this year, and I will of course revisit Hive's place in the book. I know we want that story to be even better, particularly with Hive down to 5K users. So, just this one time, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, with the reminder: FAFO can be a two-way street.

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acidyo 8 months ago

It sounds like I made the good decision to mute you and will be doing a lot better in the future to also mute you on the FRIDAY notification bot. Good luck, may I never have to read any more of your weird takes on how things are.

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16 votes

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isnochys 7 months ago

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isnochys 8 months ago

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isnochys 8 months ago

Thank you for your witness vote!
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1 vote