RE: God Does NOT Condone Abortion

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RE: God Does NOT Condone Abortion

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riverflows in The Kingdom • 2 months ago

Ha, well, not being a believer, I shouldn't really even get into this debate, but you know, it's Hive, and I like to think we can have these discussions.

I think using the bible to prove it either way is a fools errand, because it's a text that was written in another time and thus different context. Even many biblical scholars will tell you this.

I also think you're pushing a metaphor here that can't equate to abortion at all. In your instances, child sacrifice is a religous rite to get God's - or a deities - favour. Abortion isn't anything to do with worship.

I also don't think women are aiming for something better by terminating pregnancy - they're often due to rape, medical risk, coercion (trafficking for eg), d.v, economic survival etc - come on, it's just shitty to say all of these cases are about selfish gain. In fact, they rarely are and it's not very compassionate of you or indeed Christian to say this.

And I'm pretty sure the Bible draws a difference beteen causing a miscarriage and killing someone - murder - as different and having different penalities, so I don't think it's that easy to say the bible is totally unambigious here. Yet you're pretty clear that child deaths ordered by god as correlations or punishment but you treat women's moral decision making as blameworthy? Surely that's a double standard?

And that Molech worship doesn't equate to modern medical abortion - it's about ritual killing of children as am act of devotion which has nothing to do with abortion. It's pretty telling you don't talk about Jesus here - isn't his core teachings about mercy, care for women, and being compassionate before you condemn someone? Why have you missed that out? I mean, by all means, oppose abortion, or support choice, or don't - but talking about child sacrifice is just shutting down deep moral reflection that theologions of all kinds of denominations have been doing for centuries.

2 months ago in The Kingdom by riverflows

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borderline.babe 2 months ago

The Bible is God's truth, and truth withstands the test of time; it does not matter that we suddenly live in a different time. You brought up people causing a miscarriage -- yes, there is even Scripture for that! 😄 God still views an accidental/unintentional death as bad and tells the perpetrators to pay a fine (Exodus 21:22).

I also don't believe I am off with my metaphor, because that's what it is 😅 A child was there and now it isn't, often terminated for the sake of better circumstances as I mentioned the first time, because we live in a godless world where we only have to answer to ourselves.

This is perhaps the most accurate graph for reasoning that I've found to date, Cambridge University, 2023. Almost (or over, depending which stats you view) 50% of abortions are unplanned pregnancies; women's freewill. The cases you have brought up (rape, domestic violence) are very small cases -- 1% -- and despite that, it is still the woman's freewill to abort the baby. Having experienced countless Hyperemesis Gravidarum pregnancies -- two of which we nearly died --, pregnancy complications, and having the experience of being molested by family, I can still say I would keep any life growing within me. Women have that choice as well; you act as if they do not!

I'm confused about your last paragraph, asking why I didn't bring up Jesus, when He didn't need to be? 😅 The Old Testament quotes are from God to the Israelites after they were sacrificing their children to Moloch in the fire, and built poles to Asherah.

Thank you for your comment, I see that this debate is near to you as well. I am also grateful to have been on both sides, hearing arguments from both sides, and having children myself, finally coming to my own conclusion 🙏

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riverflows 2 months ago

I respect your ability to have children in a safe relationship. I also respect your emotional capacity to carry difficult pregnancies

Im just surprised you didn't refer to Christ if you call yourself a Christian. Surely, you have to take his view not just the old testament when you are considering morality?

The Bible is God's truth, and truth withstands the test of time

If interpreter didn't change Christians would still stone people. Literal interpretation has changed with time. You might see God's truth, but you yourself are using metaphor, and I bet you'd run to the Bible for answers if someone took out your eye because you hit the neighbours dog with your car. Surely Jesus adjusts things slightly. Justice is one thing, brutality another. If you are a Christian, you can't possibly draw only on the old testament to make your decisions.

However, the data you use still doesn't really say anything about morality, which is the argument you were using. I can conceded it's interesting and corrects my generalisation, but it doesn't support your view that woman are choosing this for a better life eg better jobs 😂 and it doesn't support your view of "sacrifice" as a metaphor. You're saying to look at the Bible LITERALLY but it's ok for you to use metaphor that doesn't make sense.

The whole God is dead thing doesn't work either - that's not at all what Nietzsche meant. He wasn't talking literally either and his metaphor meant something entirely different to your argument about women's agency.

I actually don't care what you believe, just your argument is hella flawed, which is what I'm interested in.

The whole "there was child sacrifice to deities" in the Bible has absolutely no link to medical abortion. It makes as little sense to me as your belief in God and what so called Christians have done in his name - war, murder, raping children.

I'm pretty sure Gods truth was meant to be love. Literal interpretation of the Bible is just dangerous. I'm sure even your beloved Christ would say that. Go talk to him. With respect.

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borderline.babe 2 months ago (edited)

With all due respect, you aren't being respectful, but smug in disguise.

And so that is where I will end our conversation! 😄🙏 It is no longer a conversation, but an opportunity to attack. I certainly don't need anyone belittling, yes, our BELOVED Christ, despite how condescendingly you meant for it to come across. Your true intentions are shown, and I do not need to entertain devil's advocates. The audacity to try and lecture someone on who Jesus was, when you have repeatedly proclaimed how you don't practice, is pretty high.

And because you are also misguided on who Jesus was, Jesus did not call us to "love everyone," contrary to your idea of Christ. Christ told us to acknowledge the sinner 3 times before simply allowing him to perish with his wicked ways. Apostle Paul told us not to be yoked with nonbelievers, because what good does it do light to be tied to darkness? But, of course, given your misconstrued idea of Christ, you already knew all this! 😄

With all due respect (as I actually understand the meaning of the word), please Unfollow as I have done, and absolutely refrain from commenting on any of my posts. Thank you so much, I ask this in God's name -- aaand AMEN! 🙏😄💛

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riverflows 2 months ago (edited)

I’m not attacking Christ/Jesus, nor attempting to lecture anyone on faith. I engaged the text and its interpretation, because it is an ongoing debate, which Christians have done for centuries. If you write something so confident, surely you expect some rebuttal or discussion, but instead, you expect everyone to agree with your flawed argument. Since you’ve asked to disengage, sure, I'll still follow you as I find your arguments interesting.

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borderline.babe 2 months ago

I already engaged you in discussion, explaining myself twice, once in extremely detailed length in the post. I can't spend my entire time arguing an age old debate. For example, I explained how a fetus is still human life. Let's say you won't accept THAT argument because YOU don't see it as human life -- like, what am I to do?

I gave examples how Moloch sacrifice is a reflection for what is ongoing today, and you have refused to accept those arguments. You act as if paragraph upon paragraph has not been exchanged between us! Child sacrifice was for rain and victory; abortion is child sacrifice because of women hope for after it happens, or why it even occurs in the first place. You can literally go and poll any woman: why don't you want kids? "Poor, in school, bad relationship, etc." So obviously we can conclude that abortions happen because of "hoping for better circumstances." I personally know a handful of women who have had abortion, then kid, then abortion again.

So likewise to writing a debate, if you're going to engage in one, you surely have a semblance of what's happening for abortion to take place to begin with. Otherwise, I can't be faulted for assuming instigating.

I hope this clears up my flawed argument and find support for said claims.

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riverflows 2 months ago

I thought you weren't replying to me anymore? I find it fascinating that we can have some really nice exchanges, and then when I disagree with you, you go nuts and get annoyed, and call align me with Satan and call me smug, and condescending.

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